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Post Saturn in Leo . . . whew!! Now onto Saturn in Virgo – no worries, right?!

crocosmia & japanese ghost fern

Now that Saturn has moved on into Virgo and away from aspecting my Sun, I’m beginning to feel more like myself again. Saturn aspecting the Sun by transit always catches me off-guard with the weight and intensity he brings, no matter what the aspect is. This particular transit was also part of my Second Saturn Return. It took place in my 9th House and now that Saturn’s weight is starting to lift some of the effects are beginning to surface.

One thing in particular that occurred to me this morning is an awareness of the need to stay away from assigning values to astrological aspects. We so want to call some aspects “bad” and some “good”. It is human nature to want to break data into bite-sized, digestible bits. But further consideration has me coming down firmly on the side that calls all facets of a chart “neutral”. With Pluto in Sagittarius currently solidly in my 2nd House of values, this idea is being reinforced.

Staying with the idea of looking at our charts from a neutral perspective, we may need to re-examine our approach to the Moon’s Nodes. I just can’t shake the idea that South Node equals “bad” and North Node equals “good” is missing the point somehow. We are where we are and that’s what a chart shows. For example, I recently looked at a chart with Sun, Jupiter and South Node all within a few degrees in Sagittarius. Jupiter rules Sagittarius and if he’s conjuncting a Sagittarius Sun, that is going to make the individual uber-Sagittarius, would it not. My sense was maybe that’s exactly what this individual needs to focus on . . . being an exuberant, forward looking, go-for-it person, traveling to far away places and submerging themselves in the local culture and language. Learning about how the South Node in Sagittarius works is not going to happen by staying home and hiding under the bed, is it. And if we haven’t really worked with our South Node, then it doesn’t do us a whole lot of good to tell ourselves we “should” be dwelling in our North Node. That’s why I keep reminding myself that today is it . . . stay in the Now.

If we stay centered in the idea we are always in the process of growing and learning, we can help avoid getting caught in the self-abnegation trap too. With Saturn in Virgo this is particularly important. Virgo is analytical and tends to be critical and can easily descend into faultfinding. This is a great way to waste a ton of time, folks. For all those people out there with Uranus conjunct Pluto and/or Saturn in early Virgo, remember to breathe and stay calm . . . Saturn is here to help you work through issues, step by step. :-)

This lovely subtle fern is a Japanese Ghost Fern and seems very Virgoan to me – willing to play a supporting role to the vivid Crocosmia, making it look even better. :-)


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36 comments to Post Saturn in Leo . . . whew!! Now onto Saturn in Virgo – no worries, right?!

  • Pat Paquette

    Great post, Neith!My observation is that “good” and “bad” labels are applied according to how much ease or pain is associated with a certain aspect. Humans naturally seek ease and try to avoid pain — which is overall not a bad strategy. The problem is that if we avoid it long enough, we can get into situations that are more painful than a painful cure. Alcoholism is a good example. Drinking can kill the pain of a difficult situation for awhile, but eventually the drinking itself causes a worse problem. Etcetera. Throughout Planets in Transit, Rob Hand talks about certain transits as being painful only if the person is hanging onto a behavior or situation that isn’t good for them. No doubt, most people would call this a “bad” transit. Uranus transits are particularly well-known for painful disruptions that knock the individual out of a constricting situation. You and I both know that it’s an opportunity for growth and deeper personal fulfillment, but pain is pain, and it hurts!As for the South Node, the bad connotations appear to be a vestige of the Middle Ages, when astrology was decidedly fatalistic. One of the things many astrologers are looking at now is the possibility that it contains information about past lives. I’m not sure how I feel about the whole past-life thing (had a fascinating discussion of this recently with Tseka), but I am finding some interesting connections with people who have chart points (especially the Vertex) on my SN, or vice versa.I don’t think there’s one answer or correct interpretation — just as I don’t think there’s one “correct” house system. There’s room for many points of view, as vague and fuzzy as that sounds.

  • Neith

    I don’t think there’s one answer or correct interpretation — just as I don’t think there’s one “correct” house system. There’s room for many points of view, as vague and fuzzy as that sounds. Sounds quite Aquarius to me . . . and very refreshing. I’m not entirely sure about karma & past lives either. However, as you know, your Saturn is conjunct my SN – and we definitely felt a connection for the beginning. Doing more research into connections between the Nodes, Vertex and planets/angles in synastry falls into a future project category. One of the reasons I am interested in upgrading to astro-software with a good search function. We can learn so much from seeing the patterns emerge among friends & family. Isn’t talking w/tseka a delight?! She always prompts me to think outside the box! :-D

  • Neith

    Throughout Planets in Transit, Rob Hand talks about certain transits as being painful only if the person is hanging onto a behavior or situation that isn’t good for them. No doubt, most people would call this a “bad” transit. What we need practice in may be learning to distinguish between pain that is a prompt to take action, and a pain that is deeply wounding. By recognizing the first as a good thing and acting to rectify the situation, we can sometimes avoid the second, more extreme case. It seems to me both Liz Greene & Rob Hand discuss the idea that exact aspects tend to reflect many circumstances and opportunities leading up to it, sometimes entailing years. A mild dis-ease can be a signal of something far deeper and widespread.

  • chrispito

    Ah! I too have wondered about the ‘good and bad’ in the land of Node.For example, a good friend of my has her ASC, Moon, and South Node all in Taurus…very challenging to try and cast off the ‘defiecient’ south node, no?

  • Neith

    For example, a good friend of my has her ASC, Moon, and South Node all in Taurus…very challenging to try and cast off the ‘deficient’ south node, no? Exactly! :-) A very good example to illustrate this point.

  • Neith

    Here is a link to Lisa Dale Miller’s post on Saturn in Virgo:Saturn in VirgoMost of the time I like what she has to say on the lunations. But this seems very harsh to me and judgemental. Some how or another I have come around to wanting to spend serious time in a non-judgemental place. There is always so much we don’t know about any given situation . . .

  • ASTROTABLETALK

    Yes, I might do a blog out of this one – it’s such a big subject not judging ourselves and other people, and instead focussing on observation and natural consequences of actions. If you can do that consistently, you really have got some wisdom.

  • Neith

    If you can do that consistently, you really have got some wisdom. . . . and there in lies the rub!Hi DR! You are right this is a huge topic and one that we can all address from our various perspectives and still have more to cover.

  • Pat Paquette

    But this seems very harsh to me and judgemental. Some how or another I have come around to wanting to spend serious time in a non-judgemental place. Well, everyone is entitled to her opinion. And everyone else is entitled to disagree with her. “Judgmental” doesn’t even begin to described this analysis. Then, perhaps it perfectly typifies Saturn in Virgo: restrictive and hypercritical :-)I do agree with her about environmental awareness, especially water issues. Working on ourselves is a given, too, but that’s true no matter what sign Saturn is in or where he is in your chart. As for healing yourself by healing the pain around you, I emphatically believe the opposite. We are responsible only for our own healing, and trying to heal others while we ourselves are significantly dysfunctional can lead to all kinds of self-righteous behavior and good intentions with disastrous results. Committing to your own healing is the one of the most responsible things you can do in a lifetime.

  • jane

    Off topic, sorry, but Neith our dear Pluto expert, I just noticed Pluto is currently smack dab on top of my Aries’ natal Mars in her 9th house (you have her chart I believe). Did I miss where you wrote about your own such passage, or is that yet to come?

  • Tseka

    One thought about Nodes as directional, and Karmic paths:There is an arrow of time which our minds are trained to accept as having a flow past to future. I personally do not accept this. Experience says past, present and future exist simultaneously. (physicists such Bohm, Einstein, Hawking agree…as does Valkeapaa my beloved Sami joiker)However…Memory does seem to be an active information that gives rise to action. So in much the same way, i contemplate the nodes as the thread which connects us to the implicate order. (David Bohm’s concept that all things are enfolded and unfolding simultaneously.) Bohm has suggested that foreshadowing -the predictability of what is coming, is deep in the implicate order, a one consciousness perhaps, others more metaphysical might call it “astral” realm, etc.Our responses to our environment (creating present) are rooted in Memory. This is an active part of us. Consider this, you have gone to see a friend who lives on the edge of a “rough” part of town, night falls and you walk into the empty street filled with shadows. A noise trips off all the neurotransmitters etc, memory has informed that danger exists here, you clench in fear. The rumble comes nearer and a trash can that has been picked up by the wind rolls by. You relax, all the hormones send out a signal all’s well. You walk to your car and drive off in relief. In the example above both a dangerous assailant and an empty trash can existed as the potential possibilities in Memory. The human mind did what? chose the one most likely to preserve the local system -life? Could a similar principle be at work with the nodes? The potential hidden in the shadow informs the unfolding present. We surely notice the one that makes us clench in fear, what about all the rest?I think the nodes work similarly. The aware particle (one life)is moving through a local field and everything responds – just as a ripple though water. Past present future enfolded.Bohm also thought telepathy could be explained in the same way through “super-nonlocality” or simultaneous connectivity, therefore transmission of information would be received instantly in spite of distance. At least in my life the telepathic (etc) experiences are very often connected to the nodes and the Vertex as Pat has mentioned. Felt as triggers, re-cognitions. Quite honestly searching for the why of my own sometimes oddball life that seems to fall into timelessness spontaneously is what sent me to the physics books, astrology and a fair tour through metaphysics.I have walked away from the idea of Karma, have not got one answer but content myself with:some things are And i do wonder as we share our individual experiences if we are in a process of training ourselves to see “time” differently? Perceive timelessness.Perhaps.

  • Neith

    We are responsible only for our own healing, and trying to heal others while we ourselves are significantly dysfunctional can lead to all kinds of self-righteous behavior and good intentions with disastrous results. Committing to your own healing is the one of the most responsible things you can do in a lifetime. Now this statement i completely agree with! thanks, Pat. :-)

  • Neith

    I think the nodes work similarly. The aware particle (one life)is moving through a local field and everything responds – just as a ripple though water. Past present future enfolded.Brilliant comment, tseka . . . it has my brain firing on all cylinders!!If I look at my South Node in Sagittarius in my 1st House in the light of your thought, several things come to mind. One is the number of times over the course of my life when i have responded “instinctively” (SNode) to a sense of danger & avoided it. And as my SNode is in the first house, Self, it follows that the memories/instincts protect the self. That suggests to me we can dance between the Nodes, tap into the energies they represent and value them equally.that being said, I do feel a key ingredient is to do one’s best to keeping moving back to the neutral point and checking one’s stance. It can be very similar to the way to dance with Pluto . . . cautiously and with forbearance and profound respect. The Nodes are powerful points in the chart and we stand to gain much from coming to understand and appreciate the qualities of both.a cruise through jm’s to read all her wonderful posts on the different Nodes is a must. just use the search function at the top of the page to find them. she has a genius for delineating what each mean. we need all that information to find our own point of balance.And i do wonder as we share our individual experiences if we are in a process of training ourselves to see “time” differently? Perceive timelessness.We can surely explore it! For a reconnecting to a sense of peace, if nothing else.

  • Neith

    well, darn, blogger is being weird. but if you click on the blue type-face, it will take you to raging uni!

  • Tseka

    Yes a balance. I imagine it like this:Our south node connected directly to Memory. Memory being deep in the super-consciousness. The NN enfolding the consciousness and unfolding it simultaneously sorta like a personal telepathy with the “source”. So if each of us does this with the whole it would make sense that we are in constant communication with each other. And all things.

  • casey

    rather like the internet?

  • Neith

    So if each of us does this with the whole it would make sense that we are in constant communication with each other. And all things. There have been/are moments when this has been/is my experience. However, much of the time daily “stuff” demands my attention and it’s noisy! BTW, around the time of the last Lunar Eclipse, Mars in Gemini was exactly conjuncting my NNode. Mars is now moving towards my Uranus in Gemini, that busy fellow . . . :-) He will exactly conjunct my Uranus on the solar eclipse/New Moon on the 11th. Timing is the thing! Thank you, tseka, for sharing your thoughts on the Nodes with us. I feel liberated from the nagging “shoulds”. Shoulda, coulda, woulda = GUILT

  • Neith

    rather like the internet? heh, heh, heh . . . have i ever said how much i love the internet?! :-D

  • Tseka

    rather like the internet?yes

  • Tseka

    haha i posted that last comment and got a blank page. had to re do and there you are Neith, two particle crossing? Ja, Guilt so non creative!We all have moments of “extra perception” so we know that we are capable of much more. A purposeful suppression perhaps was necessary. And now? Maybe the need for that suppression is dissolving.

  • Pat Paquette

    We all have moments of “extra perception” so we know that we are capable of much more. A purposeful suppression perhaps was necessary. And now? Maybe the need for that suppression is dissolving. I have had this thought many times over the years, Tseka. Love your explanation of the Nodes and perception of time! The one thing I would add is that time and the Universe are still unfolding. As I like to put it, even God is evolving. This is our opening for being co-creators of the Universe. We are co-directing this show in some way, so it’s all the more important that we heal ourselves and co-direct from a place of wholeness (love).

  • Devil Mood

    Very interesting post, Neith!I’ve also had enough of catastrophical interpretations of planets and positions. Nothing is really good or bad, there are simply different kinds of energy and the way that we interpret and deal with them is the most important thing.The thing with the Nodes is that I don’t know exactly their “story”, so to speak. While in other planets, I understand the logic behind their nature, for instance we know Mars is the God of War and all those implications…is there such a “story” for the nodes? I know it’s an axis and the Dragon’s tail and all that but…hmmm. I can’t connect a lot with the NN in Gemini for now, so I guess I’m sticking to what I’m good at, I like that Dragon’s tail ;) Later, we’ll see…

  • Neith

    Nothing is really good or bad, there are simply different kinds of energy and the way that we interpret and deal with them is the most important thing.Very well said, Devil Mood. Just deal with what’s right in front of us, a day at a time. Sometimes we humans have a propensity to complicate a simple concept unnecessarily. Or maybe i’m just having a case of tired brain today!! :-)BTW, here’s a link to wikipedia’s info on the moon’s nodes. It has a great diagram illustrating how that all works.Moon Nodes

  • jane

    So… do you have your ‘sprung’ date?? :-D”Please release me, let me go…” (hearing old Engelbert in the background…):-D

  • Neith

    so… do you have your ‘sprung’ date?? :-DI just finished talking with my boss & it’s looking more like I’ll be here thru the 21th . . . simply because there is no way to find & train a new person in the 3 days I will be working next week! And when does Saturn move past my Venus?! :-D

  • Neith

    Oh yeah, he’s also opened negotiations for me to come in a couple of days at the first of the month to walk my replacement thru various data entry tasks……

  • jane

    And when does Saturn move past my Venus?! :-D~gags herself~(I’m not saying a thing!!!):-D

  • jane

    Oh yeah, he’s also opened negotiations for me to come in a couple of days at the first of the month to walk my replacement thru various data entry tasks……Saturn and Venus will be in your 9th house…So you will have no problem imparting your wisdom (Saturn) with love (Venus) to this new ‘student’ (house of teaching/learning)…:-DIt’s all right on cue!!! :-D

  • jane

    ENGELBERT HUMPERDINCKRELEASE ME – 02/03/19676 weeks at #1 – 56 weeks on chartPlease release me, let me goFor I don’t love you anymoreTo waste our lives would be a sinRelease me and let me love againI have found a new love, dearAnd I will always want her nearHer lips are warm while yours are coldRelease me, my darling, let me go(Please release me, let me go)For I don’t love you anymore(To waste my life would be a sin)So release me and let me love againPlease release me, can’t you seeYou’d be a fool to cling to meTo live a lie would bring us painSo release me and let me love again(Let me love, let me love):-D

  • Neith

    RELEASE ME – 02/03/19676 weeks at #1 – 56 weeks on chartBIG groan . . . . I worked at Yellowstone Nat’l Park back in the day, and this was played over, and over, and over ’til I wanted demolish the juke box!! :-D

  • jane

    ROFL :-D(Sorry!)

  • jane

    That must have been a fun job?

  • casey

    Better than “It’s a Small World” at F.A.O. Schwartz!!What went on yesterday? I had an amazing “flow” day. And on a day that I was dreading because I had jury duty. I get called for jury duty often and they ALWAYS want to pick me. (don’t pick me!) But yesterday started out early — left the house while still dark to drive downtown which usually takes 45 minutes. It took 15 minutes!! And then I found a parking place right off the bat! And then I got paneled on the very first group! And then I. DIDN’T. GET. PICKED!!! And it was a capital murder case. And I DIDN’T GET PICKED! And I was through by 1:00 in the afternoon. And it only took me 20 minutes to drive to work. And then, in the evening, I found the new Sims2 expansion pack at Best Buy without having to make them go look in the back. And Lee and I had to drive back into town to go to the pub to see my favorite singers and it only took 15 minutes!And I never had to wait in line at a stoplight all day. And no one ever tried to cut in front of me. yesterday was all about flow.Van said, “My momma told me there’d be days like this.” But I never believed her.

  • Tseka

    Yahoo Casey!Man that WAS a charmed day thanks for sharing the news. Not sitting on a jury for a capital murder case in Texas, man that is really charmed! Hope it spreads. I’m noticing similar here tho on much smaller level, makes me wonder what life will be like when Pluto and Venus turn, zowie. I’m ready.

  • Neith

    Van said, “My momma told me there’d be days like this.” But I never believed her. ROFL!! Treasure it!! And boy do I agree with tseka about not having to serve on a jury for a capital murder case in Texas….. my god, that would be rough! :-)I was buried yesterday at work, not sure just exactly what sort of progress was made. Something tells me there are deep underground changes in the works coming for my Pisces boss as Pluto will be squaring that 27 Pisces Sun here shortly . . . my leaving will precipitate some major “stuff” whether he realizes it or not.

  • casey

    Well, I had another good one today — though it’s different from yesterday. Today’s was all about hard work and going against the standard way of thinking.We had unhappy clients on Tuesday — they’re hoping to see structure on an seismic cube where we’re seeing nothing. So they produced well logs with well velocities that were bringing out what good processors consider “multiples” — kind of like a ringing noise or ripples in a pond that repeat regularly, obscuring data that is “real.” So I spent most of this week, correlating their well info with our velocities and repicking the velocities for the cube. A lot of work.This afternoon we showed them the new stacks we got from the new vels. You should have seen the excitement in the room. The geologist was practically drooling on himself. AND I was the person who was running the meeting and my boss was happy as a clam. Plus I acted like a professional geophyscist, sounded like I knew what I was talking about and didn’t act like my goofy non-technical self.hee. Two days in a row. woo hoo.