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Pluto and Self-defeating Behaviors

Let’s face it, as Pluto winds down his journey through Sagittarius and prepares to enter Capricorn at the end of November, like a lot of other astrologers Pluto and what messages he has for us are very much in my thoughts.

As I was waking up this morning it came to me Pluto either natally or by transit challenges us to face our self-defeating behaviors, the “cut off your nose to spite your face” ones. Those of us with a strong Pluto presence natally start out right out of the gate dealing with these while others have these behaviors brought to their attention by Pluto transits to their personal planets and Ascendant.

Each Pluto generation through the signs have their signature failing. For the Pluto in Cancer folks it was taking their sacrifices for home and hearth to an extreme, for the Pluto in Leo group that I belong to it’s pride in being “right”, Pluto in Virgo people have the possibility of elevating criticism to a fine art (for the other person’s own good of course). The Pluto in Libra generation can go one of two ways . . . taking their idea of justice over the top or being unable to make a decision due to indecisiveness. From what I’ve seen of the Pluto in Scorpio people first you have to get their attention because they can get lost in their current obsession and as for the Pluto in Sagittarius group they may fall prey to righteousness.

My own experience in good Pluto in Leo style lead to me frequently taking a stand for some reason or another and ending up losing out on a treat of some kind because of it. As Pluto gradually moved over my Midheaven and personal planets the awareness began to sink in I was the one causing myself unnecessary grief because of idealistic stances and pride. As a result I have gradually become more and more pragmatic in my general approach to life and it’s challenges. Yes, often I AM in the right but to pursue that course to the end would serve no one’s best interests least of all my own.

As a Libra-Scorpio person it seems the challenge is to find the best compromise available and to realize taking a stand based on pride instead of Scorpio pragmatism won’t allow for a solution benefiting all parties. Almost everyday we see examples of how pride in being right eats up resources when a better alternative would be to let it go and compromise. Politicians of all stripes are extremely good at it!

I know there are a lot of good Plutonians out there and I’m wondering if any of you have had similar experiences or observed others dealing with these issues. Or maybe this is the sort of thing you are learning/have learned through a Pluto transit.

The last of the David Austin yellow roses as fall settles in here.
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25 comments to Pluto and Self-defeating Behaviors

  • Devil Mood

    This is a very interesting post, Neith, but to tell you the truth I can’t say I noticed it. At least when I think of the Pluto transits to my stellium in Sagittarius…I can only say that they made me rethink and analyse everything – not only self-defeating behaviours. ;)

  • neith

    Hey DM!At least when I think of the Pluto transits to my stellium in Sagittarius…I can only say that they made me rethink and analyse everything – not only self-defeating behaviours. ;)Yes, all that too. :-) I suppose what I’m looking at is just one facet of the Pluto process in this post. This is one of the few times I have really been aware of what it means to have lived over 60 years, all of which it seemed like I was finishing one Pluto transit and moving on to the next. When one’s chart has all but one planet (Uranus) with a 120 degree arc and all my personal planets within a 60 degree arc, I get most of my transits clumped together too. Guess that’s why I’m a “yank the band aid off in one pull” type! LOL

  • leslee

    I think my Pluto in Virgo (conjoined Venus and conjunct Mercury) got turned in on itself, ‘cuz the criticism is mostly self-directed. I rarely criticize anyone (though I also have Jupiter and Neptune sextile to that stellium, which maybe softens it with compassion and sometimes way too much blind trust where criticism would be warranted!).

  • neith

    Hi leslee,I think my Pluto in Virgo (conjoined Venus and conjunct Mercury) got turned in on itself, ‘cuz the criticism is mostly self-directed.Actually find this is often the case with Virgo Sun people. :-)And a case can be made for the constructive use of the same things that create problems for us. For instance, the critical faculty is wonderful for discerning what the problem is so it can be fixed. Pluto in Leo can also be expressed as a deep source of warmth and love for all one’s fellow travelers.I still feel our Pluto in Scorpio generation will surprise everyone including themselves in the end. Scorpio is noted for it’s tenacity and ability to pull off the most astounding turn-arounds.

  • Dina

    pride in being right= McCain saying I’m going to take our American boys home and we’re going to win this war!

  • Dina

    You think we will surprise you, Neith? I feel like our generation has nothing like a united youth culture, I feel like we are very isolated from each other.

  • neith

    pride in being right= McCain saying I’m going to take our American boys home and we’re going to win this war!Yeah! But McCain is old enough to have his Pluto in late Cancer, so he’s part of the “greatest generation”. When I hear him make references to Teddy Roosevelt and Ronny Reagan, it really dates him. Shoot, many of the Pluto in Scorpio people were just starting to be born when Reagan was president. You think we will surprise you, Neith? I feel like our generation has nothing like a united youth culture, I feel like we are very isolated from each other.I do. As a strongly Scorpio type myself, I was never a team player but am good at seeing what needs to be done and doing it. However it will most likely take living through your Saturn Returns before the true impact will be felt.

  • casey

    Perhaps the placement in the hemispheres is important with a Virgo turning inward or outward, neith? Cuz you know Eve has NO planets below the horizon and her sense of unassailability is astounding at time. And her ability to critize others.hee. Even Lee, little British hobbit Sagitarrian that she is, has been talking about how annoying Eve is lately. “I completely understand how you want to kick her out of the car sometimes.” Planets below the horizon = more self-critical?

  • Jessica

    Planets below the horizon = more self-critical?Probably! I have 75% below the horizon and I am brutally self-critical. Literally, there have been times when I have been aware of the script running in my head and it would sound abusive if I said those words aloud to anyone else. Actually, this Pluto transit (Pluto opp. Mars/Ascendant) is forcing me to get a grip on the concept that I can’t forgive myself anything (a grip on that and everything else).

  • Jessica

    waitasec! being overly self-critical is a fairly self-defeating behavior, isn’t it? hmmmm.

  • neith

    Hey Casey! Was just wondering how you were doing in your post-Ike phase. :-)Cuz you know Eve has NO planets below the horizon and her sense of unassailability is astounding at time. And her ability to criticize others.Oh my, a tad difficult is she?! Well she does have the majority of her planets in the upper right quadrant and her Moon-Uranus is on her DES, so it feels more like she just flat refuses to acknowledge she is a “responder type” rather than an “initiator type”. (BTW, my chart is classic for self sufficient – majority in the upper left quadrant.) At any rate, when Pluto in Capricorn transits her ASC here in a year or so, that ought to get her attention!!

  • neith

    Hi Jessica!Literally, there have been times when I have been aware of the script running in my head and it would sound abusive if I said those words aloud to anyone else.That is classic for someone with Mercury conjunct Pluto or Mercury in Scorpio. The key is being aware of what you are thinking as surprisingly few people are that I know of. We can’t make adjustments to things we don’t acknowledge . . . so you are ahead of the game!waitasec! being overly self-critical is a fairly self-defeating behavior, isn’t it? hmmmm.well . . . yes. :-D

  • Mandy

    Pluto (retrograding at birth) in Virgo here.Critique seems to be the bane of my life, both from myself and by (significant)others. Essentially, I’m never sure how to handle it. Either blow it off or take it too much to heart. Essentially gone through life thinking I’m never quite good enough at anything I do / won’t amount to much because I’m not capable / too fat / a woman / not a good enoughparent / lazy because I spend my day on the internet /stupid. It has got to the point sometimes when I feel its pointless to do anything because whatever I do, it won’t be good enough, everyone else can do stuff better / knows more about the subject in hand (even when they don’t).I think its the Virgo influence with me – I just feel as though I’m being measured on an imaginary model of perfection and being found wanting every time. Had a very interesting time earlier in the year when a critique of me by a significant other was blasted back through a third party (Pluto in Capricorn). Was very, very demoralizing. Dreading re-entry. Don’t think I can handle another attack like that one. Mx sorry to vent like this.

  • Terry Lamb

    I like what you’re saying about Pluto. Here’s another take on Pluto in Leo: It’s all about ME! (It’s also the “Me Generation”.) I don’t think Pluto-Leo people are necessarily self-centered. There’s a higher expression, where this group will take self-responsibility, rather than blaming others or letting someone else carry the load. This is my generation too, and I have had lots of time to learn from experience! ;)

  • casey

    Post-Ike…we’re pretty much back to normal in my part of town. Over on the east and down by the coast is a totally different story. But they’ve finally fixed all the lights and picked up most of the tree debris. whew. Driving was NOT fun with the lights out. I shouldn’t be-yutch so much about Eve because she has the softest heart around. And is astoundingly generous. but sometimes…we just want to smack her little Virgo self into next week…My ex- is declining rapidly. If I’m reading his chart right, then I’m expecting it to be in early November. We hoped he could make it to Thanksgiving but we’re telling Eric to come home NOW and see him before he’s gone.He is in so much pain and is reacting by being a complete and total mean SOB. He’s driving everyone away.Don’t lions usually go off by themselves into the bush when they’re facing death?

  • neith

    {{{{{{Mandy}}}}}}I think its the Virgo influence with me – I just feel as though I’m being measured on an imaginary model of perfection and being found wanting every time.Have you ever worked with the 180 of this? As in defining what your best qualities are? I have had success with saying affirmations out loud to myself in a mirror. It’s like you look yourself in the eye and tell yourself you are just fine! Sure, it feels a bit silly at first but there is great powerful in combining both the auditory and visual.This is a way to use the inherent transformative power of Pluto too.

  • neith

    Hey Terry! thanks for dropping by! Your astrological perspective is always welcome here. :-)I don’t think Pluto-Leo people are necessarily self-centered. There’s a higher expression, where this group will take self-responsibility, rather than blaming others or letting someone else carry the load. This is my generation too, and I have had lots of time to learn from experience! ;)Of course, I agree. With a Saturn-Pluto conjunction in Leo in the 9th, it was my second Saturn return that really finished getting this message into my head. And it was around that time I moved out into the astro-blogosphere. In other words, really stepped up to pick up my share of the load. :-D

  • neith

    Hi Casey!Good to know life is gradually returning to something resembling normalcy down your way. But there is probably a lot of debate about rebuilding in some areas what with the financial crunch now.Don’t lions usually go off by themselves into the bush when they’re facing death?Cats in general prefer to withdraw when in extremis. This does make it difficult for family to make their peace with him though. Can his pain meds be upped? An older friend of mine who died of bone cancer had a morphine pump installed and she was able to dose herself at will. It helped lots.

  • casey

    He is such a Leo.He starts the day out coherently (I’m told) but gets worse as the day goes on. There has been talk about a nursing home but I think a hospice would be MUCH better for med administration. But he won’t hear of it. He’s down to 120 lbs now. Jeannie downstairs is SOOOO upset about him…she’s worrying about his mortal soul. Thinks he’s going to the bad place. All I can do is stare at her because I don’t think of “heaven” or “hell” anymore. I think of reincarnation and the “in-between”. Lessons learned or not learned. And the only person passing judgment on you is you. She also believes in ghosts so you’d think she’d feel better cuz if ANYBODY was going to haunt his house, it would be Ronnie. sigh. I just don’t think like these people…

  • casey

    my mother is very big on affirmations. Her favorite is “Mind is the builder.”interestingly, I don’t think like HER either. (I’m much more skeptical.) when did I become a scientist?I think I’m more Eastern in my spiritual thinking…though those religious tests always say I should be a Unitarian-Universalist. Maybe I should look into them.

  • Mandy

    This is a way to use the inherent transformative power of Pluto too.Thanks Neith, glaringly when asked in a job interview in the summer when asked what were my good points .. I kind of struggled a little…I should remember that transformation is often slow and painful when you’re on the journey.

  • neith

    She also believes in ghosts so you’d think she’d feel better cuz if ANYBODY was going to haunt his house, it would be Ronnie. ROFL! ummmmm, pretty strange stuff all right.I am very pragmatic about using affirmations. The system of looking in the mirror and speaking to yourself out loud works because it more or less demands you actively participate. I recall the first time I tried it . . . got my attention for sure.I prefer inclusive belief systems but it’s been so long since I took one of those quiz’s on Beliefnet, I don’t remember the result. Just that it was so not mainstream christian!

  • neith

    Thanks Neith, glaringly when asked in a job interview in the summer when asked what were my good points .. I kind of struggled a little…you are welcome. :-)

  • Haiku Ambulance

    What do you think about that term, greatest generation?

  • neith

    What do you think about that term, greatest generation?Very misleading because IMO no one generation can truly make that claim. Each generation produces both great people and total losers so i see us as all pretty much the same. :-)